A major reason that adult Santa-believers are fewer in number than adult Jesus-believers is that the Santa myth involves a man (a real man in church history just like Jesus) actually coming down your chimney and leaving gifts in your living room. Relatively young children, even if they don’t have a heads-up from a non-believing friend, can objectively dispell the Santa story with minimal investigation. The Jesus myth is much more crafty in this regard. He sends his spirit to interact with people with an inaudible voice, which means that if you tell me that he came down your chimney and left important messages in your head, I can call you a liar, but I can’t point to any objective data showing that the event didn’t happen.
Karla (a recent commenter) suggests that the fact that no one has died for their belief in Santa is a major difference between the two supernatural beings. I say that doesn’t mean anything. With a few crafty modifications to the Santa myth in its earliest days, it is possible that people would have been more willing to die for their belief in him. If Santa was invisible and left invisible gifts under the Christmas tree, then no one would be able to prove his non-existence.
(Hat-tip to Beth, the recent commenter, for bringing up this topic.)
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11 comments:
I don't think there has ever been any scientist sent to the North Pole in hopes of finding a elves, flying reindeer and Santa Clause. I don't think anyone has ever tried to find textual flaws in Twas the Night Before Christmas. Everyone knows it to be a myth. Of course there is a historical Kris Kringle that lived and gave gifts to children and a legend and myth was developed after that.
You believe this is no different that a historical Jesus who was simply a man lived and died and then stories of great mythological detail arose concerning him. This is untrue. Science, history, archeology, literary anaylis, philosophers and scholars of all kind have researched into the claims of Christianity and have never unearthed any proof against it. They cannot explain where the body went, they cannot explain why the church grew and flourished in Jerusalem where this man lived and where if he was only a man much would have been written to dispel this new Christian group that the Romans and the Jews wanted abolished. Instead, Christianity spred to the known world. All of the disciples died horendous deaths and never recanted that Jesus rose from the dead. Even Paul who killed Christians saw the risen Christ and became His most devoted follower enduring great persecution for the faith he once mocked. To compare Jesus Christ with Santa is simply a preposterous analogy.
God maybe an unseen God as He is spirit, but His works are seen. I have seen healings, experienced healings, I have been given prophetic words by people I had never met before, who knew nothing about me, that were exactly correct multiple times.
Santa is just a fun story. Jesus is eternal life. Big difference.
Karla, yikes, seriously, Kris Kringle? History, history, history.
Check the historical facts on the origin of the Santa myth. Start with Nicholas of Myra, a Christian Bishop born in the third century, who is attributed with miracles which were likely every bit as legitimate as the "experiences" you claim to have had.
http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=23
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
Wow. I'm sorry I knew that. That was a big blunder. Save for the wrong name, everything else I said stands.
I think the only reason you don't accept miracles is that you believe they are impossible. So no matter what is presented to you as a miracle you couldn't accept it is possible.
Not true, I could accept miracles if presented to me in some kind of real-life way. I have never seen a supernatural-type miracle in my life or in the lives of anyone I know. I certainly don't intend to accept miracle stories over the internet.
But even if I did accept a miracle, the very grandest thing it would point to possibly would be the existence of a supernatural being. It certainly wouldn't necessitate faith in the Christian God.
Karla claims that the disciples never recanted Jesus' death while dying horrible deaths is not a provable claim. Also dying for such a cause doesn't prove the cause. None of the many historians alive at the time recorded any of this, and one would think something this important would have been written about.
Also Paul never met Jesus. He only had visions, or what we now refer to as hallucinations, of Jesus.
As for witnessing healings and being healed, the human body is a wonderful machine with a "yet to be fully understood" immune system. These things happen and are being better understood with research and medicine. Besides, why do some believers get healed and other don't. Oh, that's right, the mysterious plan that God has for us. I keep forgetting that excuse because it's so unbelievable.
I have had people tell me things that have come to past a few times too. It's called coincidence! How many times have you had someone who knew you well totally misread you? Or give you bad advice with lots of information about you? I bet a lot more times than a stranger knowing something random about you.
Do you believe in homeopathy and astrology too?
Non sicuro, many of the things you bring up have been addressed at length by people far more knowledgeable than I. If you read Frances Schaeffer, C.S. Lewis, or Ravi Zacharias they have answered the matter of why it must be the Christian God if there is a God at all. And they also show that there is indeed a God. If you really want to research what Christians believe and really want to respond to our claims in a detailed way, I would suggest reading books by these people. They are very intellectual, knowledgeable, reasonable, and respectful in their delivery.
summer, there are plenty of historical documents that tell us what happened to the disciples. These testimonies of their deaths do not come from the Bible, but other historical sources.
You think Paul must have had a delusion because you don't believe it is possible for him to have seen Jesus. A person doesn't radically change their life for a delusion. Paul's conversion was a radical life changing event. A hallucination doesn't explain it. Something real happened in his life.
Becoming instantly healed of a major upper respiratory and sinus infection is not something medically explainable. I received prayer and I was instantly and completely healed.
Just because every person who ask for healing doesn't get healed doesn't mean healing doesn't happen. I don't know why it's not everybody. I have prayed for people and seen them healed and others did not receive healing. I don't know why. I do know a person doesn't have to be a Christian to receive healing.
No the things I am talking about are not coincidence. But I cannot convince you of my honesty since you do not know me. I cannot expect you to trust me.
Karla, I think the history of our exchanges demonstrates that between you and I, I am not the one who is in need of being referred to helpful resources. My "problem" does not relate to ignorance of the relevant arguments. My problem is the inability of you and others to put forward a reasonable, compelling case for (1) how a person can have certainty regarding the existence of the Christian God and (2) how a person can have certainty regarding what this Christian God desires/requires of his followers.
Summer,
Welcome to my blog, and thank you for commenting!
The reasonable, compelling case is nothing more than an improvable conundrum and the onus is on them to prove their claims. Granted the chosen forum of discourse is a blog, I don't understand what people expect to happen. Poof! I believe! Riiiight.
DB,
I think that I have been as guilty as Karla in expecting the "poof" factor on this blog. Karla of course supposing that God might grant the poof on her behalf, and me believing that surely the use of the brain would cause the poof on my behalf. And as you see for yourself, God has not seen fit to change my heart through these exchanges and I do not seem to be able to force logical thought on others.
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