In a conversation with a family member, I was asked this week regarding my Christian conversion experience: "How do you view that now?"
My response:
I view that experience as an important step for me in becoming a better person. I think the surrounding personal circumstances played a big part, not just the Christianity. While I wouldn't recommend my path to others as the way to get from one point to another, I don't reject those choices and experiences as illegitimate or bad.
I recently encountered an interesting exercise: writing a letter to yourself at a certain point in your past. Apparently, this helps you identify things that you now think about past experiences that might not otherwise occur to you. If I were writing a letter to myself that I could somehow go back and receive in the fall of 1998, I think it would include this note..."In your effort to figure out what life is about, you will encounter Christians who are ready and willing to share interesting thoughts and confident answers from their worldview. Pay attention to their input and familiarize yourself with what the Christian worldview is all about. But, as 1 Thessalonians 5:21 says, "Test everything, hold fast to what is good." Don't lock yourself into accepting everything that one worldview presents to you as truth. Keep an open mind. Seek to gain the "benefit" or the "good" from various systems of thought. Be just as willing to lend an ear to the naturalist as the supernaturalist, to the atheist and the theist, to the evolutionist and the creationist. When something seems absurd, try to figure out why some people don't see the absurdity of it at all. Be humble."
Showing posts with label Conversion. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Conversion. Show all posts
Wednesday, August 20, 2008
Friday, August 8, 2008
Intro to my blog
This blog originally began anonymously in early April 2008 with the purpose of giving me an outlet for free thought, unimpaired by fear that someone I know might arrive here uninvited and read my most recent "dangerous" thoughts and think poorly of me.
I was a Christian. From my infant baptism through my “conversion” experience as a teenager, then onto serious-minded pursuits of authentic Christian living…choosing a Christian wife…having our children baptized…etc. I had made a considerable number of rather significant life choices based on my Christianity…surrounding myself with Christian friends working in a company that only employs Christians…etc.
Needless to say, as I began to seek real honesty with myself about my religious beliefs, I immediately faced a great deal of anxiety about being “caught.” It seemed prudent temporarily to remain anonymous as I explored the truth. I was doubting that I had ever honestly loved God. I knew very well that many of my religious notions felt very deep and genuine at times throughout my life, but I finally allowed myself to realize that I very clearly loved myself more than I loved God. I desired things which He would not desire. I did things He would not intend for me to do. I refrained from doing things He would want me to do. In other words, practically speaking, I was occupying the seat of "boss" in my life and not yielding to my God.
In days past, I had tried to muster up some sort of remorse or regret regarding any desires or activities that conflicted with my Christian faith, but I began to realize that I couldn't convince myself (and no longer wanted to) that I was sorry about such things. Finally, in March of this year, I gave up personally...inwardly, trying to avoid the thoughts which were opposed to my Christian faith.
And then I knew that I was no longer in "right relationship" with God, and I began to doubt that anyone could honestly be in "right relationship" with God. This caused me to wonder whether my whole notion of Christianity...or the general pursuit of reconciliation with an offended but ultimately loving God...was real.
Oddly, rather than this thought process being particularly traumatic or depressing, I felt somewhat uplifted and rather liberated....which was the most scary part I suppose. I have not been torn up or distressed emotionally. I have not been wandering around in any sort of disabled Eeyore-ish melancholy state. I've been quite fine actually. And I've come to accept that I am (if labels must be used) an agnostic atheist. With regard to having certainty or knowledge about gods, I say it is impossible. With regard to my own belief, I say that gods do not exist.
"You" (the audience) started out in very singular fashion, since I only “came out of the closet” with one good friend initially. But over these months, your numbers have grown as I have participated in various online discussions with Arkansas Atheists, Atheist Nexus, De-Conversion, and several great blogs. I still don’t have any intent to make this blog into a powerhouse site with record-setting numbers of visitors, and I certainly don’t set out to recruit visitors, or hand out business cards with this address on it.
But…the good news is that as I have continued to mature in my non-religious thoughts over the last few months, I have become less fearful of being “caught” and more interested to just be myself. So look out world…who knows what I might do next!
Cheers!
Mike
I was a Christian. From my infant baptism through my “conversion” experience as a teenager, then onto serious-minded pursuits of authentic Christian living…choosing a Christian wife…having our children baptized…etc. I had made a considerable number of rather significant life choices based on my Christianity…surrounding myself with Christian friends working in a company that only employs Christians…etc.
Needless to say, as I began to seek real honesty with myself about my religious beliefs, I immediately faced a great deal of anxiety about being “caught.” It seemed prudent temporarily to remain anonymous as I explored the truth. I was doubting that I had ever honestly loved God. I knew very well that many of my religious notions felt very deep and genuine at times throughout my life, but I finally allowed myself to realize that I very clearly loved myself more than I loved God. I desired things which He would not desire. I did things He would not intend for me to do. I refrained from doing things He would want me to do. In other words, practically speaking, I was occupying the seat of "boss" in my life and not yielding to my God.
In days past, I had tried to muster up some sort of remorse or regret regarding any desires or activities that conflicted with my Christian faith, but I began to realize that I couldn't convince myself (and no longer wanted to) that I was sorry about such things. Finally, in March of this year, I gave up personally...inwardly, trying to avoid the thoughts which were opposed to my Christian faith.
And then I knew that I was no longer in "right relationship" with God, and I began to doubt that anyone could honestly be in "right relationship" with God. This caused me to wonder whether my whole notion of Christianity...or the general pursuit of reconciliation with an offended but ultimately loving God...was real.
Oddly, rather than this thought process being particularly traumatic or depressing, I felt somewhat uplifted and rather liberated....which was the most scary part I suppose. I have not been torn up or distressed emotionally. I have not been wandering around in any sort of disabled Eeyore-ish melancholy state. I've been quite fine actually. And I've come to accept that I am (if labels must be used) an agnostic atheist. With regard to having certainty or knowledge about gods, I say it is impossible. With regard to my own belief, I say that gods do not exist.
"You" (the audience) started out in very singular fashion, since I only “came out of the closet” with one good friend initially. But over these months, your numbers have grown as I have participated in various online discussions with Arkansas Atheists, Atheist Nexus, De-Conversion, and several great blogs. I still don’t have any intent to make this blog into a powerhouse site with record-setting numbers of visitors, and I certainly don’t set out to recruit visitors, or hand out business cards with this address on it.
But…the good news is that as I have continued to mature in my non-religious thoughts over the last few months, I have become less fearful of being “caught” and more interested to just be myself. So look out world…who knows what I might do next!
Cheers!
Mike
Tuesday, July 8, 2008
Assessing My Christian Experience
In a recent comment thread, the question was raised regarding my own Christian experience. If you are a Christian apologist looking to interact with someone who has deconverted from Christianity, one of the fundamental points you want to establish is that something was amiss about the deconvert's Christian experience. "True" Christians who are supposedly filled with the Holy Spirit and who dwell in an authentic loving living relationship with their Lord and Saviour Jesus cannot just walk away, right?!?
I claim to have experienced Christianity to its fullest from every angle possible. I felt that I had intimacy with the Christian God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I studied and believed the Bible cover to cover. I lived in close community with other Christians. My faith matured. I had experiences which I thought should be attributed to God. I prayed. I chose my wife primarily based on our shared Christian faith. I shared and defended the Christian faith to others…agnostics, atheists, etc. I took very, very difficult stands on Christian moral issues in opposition sometimes to family and friends, and even resigned a steady, good-paying job over a Christian view. I was urged on multiple occasions by different people throughout my Christian experience to become a pastor, youth pastor, bible study leader, deacon, missionary, etc. I was trusted. The Christians around me “experientially knew” that I was a real Christian full of faith.
So I do not accept now and will likely never accept the attempts by any conversational friend or foe to suggest that the reason I am not a Christian now is that I never was one or was an incomplete or immature one. This is simply not the case. So, if you want to discredit me or if you want to win an argument with me, you are going to have to come up with another angle.
I claim to have experienced Christianity to its fullest from every angle possible. I felt that I had intimacy with the Christian God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I studied and believed the Bible cover to cover. I lived in close community with other Christians. My faith matured. I had experiences which I thought should be attributed to God. I prayed. I chose my wife primarily based on our shared Christian faith. I shared and defended the Christian faith to others…agnostics, atheists, etc. I took very, very difficult stands on Christian moral issues in opposition sometimes to family and friends, and even resigned a steady, good-paying job over a Christian view. I was urged on multiple occasions by different people throughout my Christian experience to become a pastor, youth pastor, bible study leader, deacon, missionary, etc. I was trusted. The Christians around me “experientially knew” that I was a real Christian full of faith.
So I do not accept now and will likely never accept the attempts by any conversational friend or foe to suggest that the reason I am not a Christian now is that I never was one or was an incomplete or immature one. This is simply not the case. So, if you want to discredit me or if you want to win an argument with me, you are going to have to come up with another angle.
Tuesday, July 1, 2008
Religiosity Not The Problem
I am considering, when time permits, writing a brief treatment of why a Christian should not blame “religion” for an atheist’s or agnostic’s departure from the Christian faith. First of all, in my own story, I know that “religiosity” is not the problem. I know this because I’ve “been there and done that” with this line of evangelizing…"Christianity is about relationship not religion; it’s not about what church you go to or what rules you follow, it’s about your personal walk with Jesus.” Believe me, I really have been there and believed that sort of line and used that sort of line on others. I understand the point, completely.
But in the end, I can argue quite well from the Christian standpoint, that this angle is seriously flawed as an approach to “communicating the reality of Christ.”
But in the end, I can argue quite well from the Christian standpoint, that this angle is seriously flawed as an approach to “communicating the reality of Christ.”
Monday, June 23, 2008
Open Letter To All "Concerned"
Dear Christian Concerned About My Agnosticism,
You recent letter expressed that you are concerned about my loss of faith. It seems to you that I have lost my grip on truth or possibly that I never fully understood it in the first place. You suggest that we should both be open to dialogue about these things because this path I am now on is self-contradictory, as I can’t help but presuppose the existence of the Christian God even as I suggest that he may not exist at all, and is highly unlikely to exist in the way that Christians imagine that he does. And you want me to know that you are not trying to bully me back into a personal relationship with Jesus; you just want me to hear your heart and open my own heart to that God who is knocking on the door for me to invite him in.
Thank you for your concern. Allow me to assure you that I really am quite familiar with “truth” from the Christian’s standpoint. And I “know your heart” because my own “heart” was also very much consumed with following and serving Jesus Christ as my lord and savior for years before my recent de-conversion. I could almost write every word of your side of any conversation for you and have you give a hearty amen (including giving appropriate biblical footnotes).
Your sincerity and honesty are admirable insofar as they go, but the Christian “truth” prevents you from being completely intellectually honest. You do not recognize that your self-perceived openness to dialogue is not actually very open. Your apologetic methods force you to hear the words of atheists and agnostics with impenetrable incredulity. This does not make for a productive use of time and energy.
People generally want to spend time in conversation with other people who will at least reserve some inkling of some percentage of a possibility that the opposing view might be right. But when one person in the exchange presupposes something as grand as the existence of God (and not just any notion of a God, but the Biblically presented Christian God), then it is difficult to avoid rather immediate exasperation.
By all means, don’t let this letter squelch all semblance of conversation between us, but please be aware of my propensity toward frustration if you intend to continue coming to me with the posture exhibited in your recent letter.
Peace,
Non Sicuro Pensatore
You recent letter expressed that you are concerned about my loss of faith. It seems to you that I have lost my grip on truth or possibly that I never fully understood it in the first place. You suggest that we should both be open to dialogue about these things because this path I am now on is self-contradictory, as I can’t help but presuppose the existence of the Christian God even as I suggest that he may not exist at all, and is highly unlikely to exist in the way that Christians imagine that he does. And you want me to know that you are not trying to bully me back into a personal relationship with Jesus; you just want me to hear your heart and open my own heart to that God who is knocking on the door for me to invite him in.
Thank you for your concern. Allow me to assure you that I really am quite familiar with “truth” from the Christian’s standpoint. And I “know your heart” because my own “heart” was also very much consumed with following and serving Jesus Christ as my lord and savior for years before my recent de-conversion. I could almost write every word of your side of any conversation for you and have you give a hearty amen (including giving appropriate biblical footnotes).
Your sincerity and honesty are admirable insofar as they go, but the Christian “truth” prevents you from being completely intellectually honest. You do not recognize that your self-perceived openness to dialogue is not actually very open. Your apologetic methods force you to hear the words of atheists and agnostics with impenetrable incredulity. This does not make for a productive use of time and energy.
People generally want to spend time in conversation with other people who will at least reserve some inkling of some percentage of a possibility that the opposing view might be right. But when one person in the exchange presupposes something as grand as the existence of God (and not just any notion of a God, but the Biblically presented Christian God), then it is difficult to avoid rather immediate exasperation.
By all means, don’t let this letter squelch all semblance of conversation between us, but please be aware of my propensity toward frustration if you intend to continue coming to me with the posture exhibited in your recent letter.
Peace,
Non Sicuro Pensatore
Monday, April 28, 2008
Why don't you believe?
I had an "aha" moment today with regard to my newly acknowledged religious disbelief.
One of the first conditioning drills a new Christian is supposed to do is become familiar with basic arguments or reasons for his faith (apologetics), and become comfortable sharing these (intermingled with personal testimony) with friends, family, and strangers. Surely, the primary reason for this early drill is so that the new convert won't be easily persuaded to abandon his newfound faith. I think a secondary reason for this is so that when a Christian begins to express doubts, a mentor can quickly gain leverage for reigning him in by pointing out that the doubter has not spent sufficient time reflecting on the Truth. In other words, the person has not equipped himself properly to answer his own internal question of "why do I believe?"
Well, surely I don't have to point out that this method is rather generic and can be applied to any number of varying sects, religious or otherwise.
My "aha" moment today came when I thought back on a "conversion" experience in college. I had been baptized as an infant and was raised attending church, but I didn't have a very serious Christian faith and so when I went to college, I abandoned religion in general. During college, for a variety of possible reasons, I began pondering "the meaning of life" and instinctively turned to what was most familiar...Christianity. Only this time, I was ready to really "dig in" and invest myself, taking on the mantle with full vigour. This experience resulted in ten years of rather active Christianity which in my life is ending before your very eyes in this journal.
As I thought back on that conversion experience, it occured to me that the reason I was so ready to be persuaded by Christianity was that I had not spent enough time familiarizing myself with the basic arguments or reasons for my lack of faith. I was not ready to defend myself when I was confronted with a nice-sounding alternative.
It seems that I abandoned my agnosticism because of ignorance.
Some Christian friends might want to offer this answer when asked why I have "de-converted": "He didn't pray enough, or read the Bible enough, or understand his faith enough." But "aha", I should have been answering challengers to my Christian faith all along by saying, "I am a Christian because I did not spend enough time reflecting on the truth."
For what it's worth, scientists have offered a real explanation for "aha" moments:
CLICK HERE: It may not appear in the shape of a light bulb above your head, but researchers say "Aha!" moments are marked by a surge of electrical activity in the brain.
One of the first conditioning drills a new Christian is supposed to do is become familiar with basic arguments or reasons for his faith (apologetics), and become comfortable sharing these (intermingled with personal testimony) with friends, family, and strangers. Surely, the primary reason for this early drill is so that the new convert won't be easily persuaded to abandon his newfound faith. I think a secondary reason for this is so that when a Christian begins to express doubts, a mentor can quickly gain leverage for reigning him in by pointing out that the doubter has not spent sufficient time reflecting on the Truth. In other words, the person has not equipped himself properly to answer his own internal question of "why do I believe?"
Well, surely I don't have to point out that this method is rather generic and can be applied to any number of varying sects, religious or otherwise.
My "aha" moment today came when I thought back on a "conversion" experience in college. I had been baptized as an infant and was raised attending church, but I didn't have a very serious Christian faith and so when I went to college, I abandoned religion in general. During college, for a variety of possible reasons, I began pondering "the meaning of life" and instinctively turned to what was most familiar...Christianity. Only this time, I was ready to really "dig in" and invest myself, taking on the mantle with full vigour. This experience resulted in ten years of rather active Christianity which in my life is ending before your very eyes in this journal.
As I thought back on that conversion experience, it occured to me that the reason I was so ready to be persuaded by Christianity was that I had not spent enough time familiarizing myself with the basic arguments or reasons for my lack of faith. I was not ready to defend myself when I was confronted with a nice-sounding alternative.
It seems that I abandoned my agnosticism because of ignorance.
Some Christian friends might want to offer this answer when asked why I have "de-converted": "He didn't pray enough, or read the Bible enough, or understand his faith enough." But "aha", I should have been answering challengers to my Christian faith all along by saying, "I am a Christian because I did not spend enough time reflecting on the truth."
For what it's worth, scientists have offered a real explanation for "aha" moments:
CLICK HERE: It may not appear in the shape of a light bulb above your head, but researchers say "Aha!" moments are marked by a surge of electrical activity in the brain.
Wednesday, April 2, 2008
Purpose / Introduction
[UPDATE - THIS POST HAS BEEN REVISED AND UPDATED TO ACCURATELY REFLECT THINGS AS THEY ARE TODAY 8/8/08, FOR THE UPDATE - CLICK HERE]
This blog has begun with the purpose of giving me an outlet for free thought, unimpaired by fear that someone I know might arrive here uninvited and read my most recent "dangerous" thoughts and think poorly of me.
I was a Christian. I was born into Christianity being baptized as an infant, claimed by historical Sacrament to be a subject of the Lord known as Christ, and thereby called for life to be a loyal and faithful subject. I still attend Church regularly because of my wife and children, and I am reputed to be a Christian even among those who give no particular credence to the objectivity of the Church's Sacraments (except among those to whom I have "come out" about my lack of faith).
I began to seek real honesty with myself about my "true", deepest, inner desires...questioning whether I ever honestly loved God. I realized beyond all shadow of doubt that I very clearly loved myself more than I loved God. I desired things which He would not desire. I did things He would not intend for me to do. I refrained from doing things He would want me to do.
In days past, I had tried to muster up (and I convinced myself that I was occasionally successful) some sort of remorse or regret regarding any desires or activities that conflicted with my Christian faith, and outwardly of course I still do from time to time (keeping up appearances). But inwardly of late, I have not been able to find much desire to even attempt to convince myself that I am sorry about such things. Frankly, I have given up personally...inwardly, trying to avoid the thoughts which were opposed to my Christian faith.
I began to doubt that I was in "right relationship" with God, and I began to doubt (possibly in utter self-defense) that anyone could honestly be in "right relationship" with God. This caused me to wonder whether my whole notion of Christianity...or the general pursuit of reconciliation with an offended but ultimately loving God...was real.
Oddly, rather than this thought process being particularly traumatic or depressing, I have felt somewhat uplifted and rather liberated....which is the most scary part I suppose. I have not been torn up or distressed emotionally. I have not been wandering around in any sort of disabled Eeyore-ish melancholy state. I'm quite fine actually.
"You" (the audience) will likely always be an extreme few in number. I don't intend to issue a general invitation for readers to come visit this blog. I believe I've made this site fairly well anonymous so that anyone who stumbles upon it won't recognize me.
This blog has begun with the purpose of giving me an outlet for free thought, unimpaired by fear that someone I know might arrive here uninvited and read my most recent "dangerous" thoughts and think poorly of me.
I was a Christian. I was born into Christianity being baptized as an infant, claimed by historical Sacrament to be a subject of the Lord known as Christ, and thereby called for life to be a loyal and faithful subject. I still attend Church regularly because of my wife and children, and I am reputed to be a Christian even among those who give no particular credence to the objectivity of the Church's Sacraments (except among those to whom I have "come out" about my lack of faith).
I began to seek real honesty with myself about my "true", deepest, inner desires...questioning whether I ever honestly loved God. I realized beyond all shadow of doubt that I very clearly loved myself more than I loved God. I desired things which He would not desire. I did things He would not intend for me to do. I refrained from doing things He would want me to do.
In days past, I had tried to muster up (and I convinced myself that I was occasionally successful) some sort of remorse or regret regarding any desires or activities that conflicted with my Christian faith, and outwardly of course I still do from time to time (keeping up appearances). But inwardly of late, I have not been able to find much desire to even attempt to convince myself that I am sorry about such things. Frankly, I have given up personally...inwardly, trying to avoid the thoughts which were opposed to my Christian faith.
I began to doubt that I was in "right relationship" with God, and I began to doubt (possibly in utter self-defense) that anyone could honestly be in "right relationship" with God. This caused me to wonder whether my whole notion of Christianity...or the general pursuit of reconciliation with an offended but ultimately loving God...was real.
Oddly, rather than this thought process being particularly traumatic or depressing, I have felt somewhat uplifted and rather liberated....which is the most scary part I suppose. I have not been torn up or distressed emotionally. I have not been wandering around in any sort of disabled Eeyore-ish melancholy state. I'm quite fine actually.
"You" (the audience) will likely always be an extreme few in number. I don't intend to issue a general invitation for readers to come visit this blog. I believe I've made this site fairly well anonymous so that anyone who stumbles upon it won't recognize me.
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