Sunday, July 20, 2008

Presupposing the Conclusion

To the atheist who asserts that god does not exist, the Christian responds, “That cannot be proven.”

To the atheist who states that they simply do not believe that gods exist, the Christian responds, “God does not believe that atheists exist. Atheists have to believe in God whether they acknowledge it or not. Their words and actions betray their self-deceit because all good things are of God, and atheists speak, think, and try to act on the basis of good.”

To the atheist who states that it is impossible to know whether gods exist, the Christian responds, “The existence of God can be known through the use of ordinary observation and reason, because God’s creation testifies to His existence…and truth only makes sense if it originates with a supernatural source…and reason only makes sense because God Himself is Logic…yada yada yada, many other goddy statements…”

To this last response, the atheist makes an observation beyond reasonable dispute in saying, “Claims of certainty with regard to knowledge of the existence of gods are impossible apart from the presupposition of the existence of the claimant’s particular god. Such a presupposition renders the claimant’s argument circular and therefore only acceptable to those who would choose by faith to accept a circular argument, contrary to logic. Indeed, the believer's argument presupposes its own conclusion."

2 comments:

DB said...

...and we enter back into the fact that none of the presuppositions actually accomplish their point of proving god exists. I sure hope that if there is indeed a god, he isn't hiding in the depths of a semantic argument. These arguments don't seem too honest in my opinion. They seem to me simply trickery with the use of language to prove your point...but again, doesn't prove god exists.

Anonymous said...

Agreed...and just so I'm sure that we are clear....The point of my post is to expose the major fallacy in the theist's argument, so that for instance when a fellow atheist is faced with a confusing lot of trickeration from a Christian, he can see through it and dismantle the argument.

I posted this on my Atheist Nexus page and also got some helpful feedback there. If you get a moment to check that out, just search for "non sicuro" on the main page; I'm likely to be the only result to that search there.